I got this great "guest rant" from a pattern seller (who will remain anonymous) and I thought it was worth posting.
[Although] I will note that no one's raised the issue of "How much did they pay people for the valuable vintage they are offering us" or "I bet they paid $5.00 for 20 patterns, how can they charge us $15.00 each for them??" (or significantly more, in some cases).
[It's] a very valid point and I don't want to ruin your comment section by addressing it … I have a good answer for how and why I price my offerings:
Yes I often buy boxes of old patterns for very little cost for the box. But I got up at 4:00AM to be first in line at the estate sale that I thought might possibly have vintage patterns. I stood in line for 2 hours and tried to be first in the door. When I got in the door I started pushing past people and heading for the garage or shed where the patterns usually are and lo and behold there are 2 boxes, rat pellets, roach carcasses and all …
I make my best deal and tote the smelly mess to my car. When I get them home I sit down and go through them to see if there are any beautiful finds that need my immediate attention. I sort by priority which goes first and which gets stored for another day. Then I start with the high priority ones and spread out and check to make sure all the pieces are there and cry when they aren't. I remove old pins (usually unless I miss one), I iron the envelope and the instructions so they are nice and readable.
Then I scan (or rather the DH scans) the envelope and sends it to me. I size it and clarify it a bit so it is readable. If I'm feeling creative I "clean" the front just for my files and cause I like 'em that way. Then it's time to write the listing. Gotta hold that pattern so I know the proper size and measurements … 'cause they're mostly different through the years.
Then I package the little beauty in a plastic bag and file it away until it goes to its new owner … by this time I've spent an average of 1-2 manhours, gasoline (at $4 a gallon) and we don't even count the time spent in line at the estate sale …
Now it's listing time … we all know that eBay doesn't do anything for free (and even website space costs) so I've got 1-2 hours time, a plastic bag, gas money, and then we add FEES. Take away everything else and the fees alone eat into the profit. If I manage to get $9.99 for a pattern and it better be a special one … I get to put $8.00 of that in my pocket. Take away a few cents for packaging and equipment (scanner, computer, iron) maintenance and we're down to $7.50 … O yeah, the 25 cents I paid for the pattern … we're at $7.25. IF THE PATTERN SELLS! Considering the 1-2 manhours involved … That's below minimum wage.
I thought this was worth posting because so many of us forget about the overhead and just plain TIME that's involved in running a small business, especially when you're doing everything yourself (or with the help of your spouse, who may or may not have another full-time job). Sure, I hear people say "I could buy that at the Salvation Army for a dollar," but I always want to ask them "Really? That exact pattern? You're sure it's there? When do they close, by the way?"
You're really paying for everything above, plus the luxury of choice — being able to select from the range of patterns in the seller's web store. And (at least for my advertisers) reassurance that all the pieces are there, and a good chance of a refund if they're not (try that with the Salvation Army …).
One last thing: if you do think vintage patterns are too expensive, you have a lot of options. You can not buy them, for one. Modern patterns are much, much cheaper (if you wait for the $1.99 pattern sales at the major fabric chains). You can set up a wait-for-it search on eBay and hope someone who doesn't know what they have will list it. And, of course, you can always draft your own.
That pattern up above? It's $75 (at The Blue Gardenia, sorry, there's not direct link to the pattern page). Unused, an in-demand bust size, a fancy pattern, and a great illustration. Is it worth $75? It is to somebody!
A Dress A Day 
This is one of the most fun posts we’ve had……….that includes both buyers and sellers………and I LOVE the fact that us Offerers of Vintage Lovelies have a new Job Title.professional pattern picker-througher I LOVE IT and I’m going to Steal it, Zoltar.
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Love what Cookie said…how many Grandmas do you have? In my case I don’t get up at 4 AM for anything…but I travel all over the US and go to tiny towns you’ve never heard of. I find patterns in obscure stores and out of the way shops. I am sure that you (or your Grandma) have never been there. But I was…and I gathered together all the really good patterns…just to make it easy for you to find. You’re welcome. ;-)Tina – who sometimes stays up till 4 AM…listing patterns!
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Hiya Cookie! I sure wish pattern companies had at least ONE of all their patterns as well. Especially the old McCall’s Designer Series ones. I mean come on.. Pauline Trigere? Givenchy? WOW!However, I totally understand why they DON’T! I barely have room for one of each VERY INCOMPLETE archive of each pattern that I sell. Churning out about what.. 2000 a year, since 1920 something.. man, that’s a LOT of room needed for archival and preservation! Hindsight, I bet they wish they had found a way and done it but man.That is a LOT of space! lol
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I fit squarely on both sides of this debate. Almost all the time, I won’t spend more than $4 on a pattern. I generally won’t buy single patterns on ebay, unless I need to cheer myself up. I started realizing that I’m collecting though, I’ve only made 5 out of the dozens of patterns I’ve bought in the past year. the vintage ones I’m afraid to touch or cut because they’re rare, unique, and not replacable.I lost myself in one ebay auction and spent about $75 on a pattern as wonderful as this one, and I have never regretted it. maybe i’ll treasure it, maybe i’ll take the time to carefully trace it in a moisture/dust/pet-free safe environment, maybe i’ll just divve in with my sissors. also, I have about a hundred vintage patterns I started collecting/rescuing from garage sales etc. I don’t have the heart to throw them away, but I also don’t have the energy to sell them properly. I feel so trapped!
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Um, wow. I am really surprised at how heated and rude this discuss has become. As resellers, you can put something up for sale for as much as you want to. And sure, there may be someone, somewhere, willing to spend very large amounts of money for a pattern. On the other hand, I have been collecting patterns for 20+ years. I have seen the market for vintage patterns expand, and prices (and therefore competition for them) increase, and I have a pretty good idea of what a fair price is for a pattern. I let my judgment guide me. I also know that vintage pattern prices rise and fall. Sellers want to maximize their earnings and are therefore always pushing to see what the upper price range is for patterns. Well, they find it, and then their sales slack and they have “sales” or just re-post the listing on ebay for less. Another innovation that I love to see, are the sites that offer reproductions. Since I am sewing with the patterns, a reproduction is as good as the real thing to me, and for rare/highly desireable patterns, far more economical.For Pete’s sake, folks, the free market works surprisingly well.Amy
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What a lively dialogue… and my rationalization for having over 100,000 patterns waiting patiently to be listed,,and 15,000 presently listed, I think I have reached the ultimate limit in house space, is a parallel to the Mormon philosophy. I am not Mormon, but they have a mission to gather all the birth and death and geanealogical records they can get their hands on… I feel like I am doing the same.. I am gathering up all this valuable historic data and treating it like a treasure. A lost part of history..This collection of patterns has led me into other areas, books on 1930s and 1940s fashions etc.. I find it historically fascinating the hats, gloves, shoes on the patterns of those eras… so pattern sellers, we are on a Mission!!! and enriching the world!!! my two cents worth, and yes a seller is the only one that can put a price tag on their product, the web, Ebay and Paypal fees and the cost of living has close to doubled at least…and we have to figure that into the final figure. Thank you to all pattern sellers for providing a valuable product no matter what the cost is… Penny, recently married at the end of June!! never too old to get married..
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WHEW! I am TIRED just from reading! I have never really tried to get a vintage pattern, though looking through your site I can see just how there is a simplistic elegance to alot of them. BUT, when I do I FOR SURE know what I am paying for. And I can tell you, VERY MUCH WORTH IT! Thanks for the insite and the “rant”! 🙂
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Jen: Its neat that were in a different era now, and pattern companies can store electronically. I dont know how one easily PRINTS OUT a downloadable pattern…but soon well be there! And I agree with Penny: we are on a Mission!!! and enriching the world!!! All I can say is, thank goodness SOMEONE takes the time. Because most of us cant : )
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In my case I don’t get up at 4 AM for anything~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~hahahahahame either Tina.That’s why I lots when it seems like there is nothing left around here.(though I did buy a pattern cabinet a few months ago, FULL, at an estate sale…it was, as they say, a good buy)I pay more when I buy lots then at a sale, BUT I am paying for the service provided by the seller who has gone out and done all the things I don’t want to do at the moment, like get at 4am.So that is what I think sellers do, besides save and offer great vintage, we provide a service to the buyer who wants vintage clothing or patterns or whatever, but does not have the time to go out and find it.A service always comes at a price, you just have to decide what you are willing to pay for that service.
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Great Blog,to add my 2 cents. Not all pattern sellers buy dirt cheap. I buy the majority of my vintage patterns from estate liquidators who know what I am looking for. In the last 2 weeks alone I have had a large cash outlay of over $3,000. It is not unusual to spend $5000 a month on inventory. You never know what it going to be found so you have to be ready to lay out the cash up front and then hope it does not stay on the shelves to long. It is a fine balance to find the right price that is fair to the liquidators, seller and buyer.I also do not have the luxury of a spouse that helps and I pay employees $10 an hour to inventory, scan, sort, organize and ship the dozens of orders we get every day. I personally hand pick the patterns that make it to the website but could not offer the the volume and variety of patterns with out paid help. Advertising is another issue that has not been addressed. Erin is “cheap” ((grin)) but to put an ad in Threads, Sew Stylish, Etc costs $100’s of dollars a month. There is alot that goes into pattern selling and even though we are “small sellers” it is still a Business with cost and overhead way beyond the costs of the pattern.Love this blog as it helps for both sellers and buyers to see both perspectives.Hugs,Janet
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If someone reading this blog and rant today about patterns wishes to set up an instant online children’s patterns website or whatever they wish to do with them, I have perhaps 500 or more children’s patterns, almost all uncut, some from the 40s to present day and would give them all to a good home for the cost of shipping… It would probably cost close to $100 for a shipment of this size.. You would be pleased and it would be an instant kids and babies and teens pattern business, you just have to do all the legwork and add a price!!! contact me through my website http://www.antiquedollhouseofpatterns.ca if you could use all of these kids patterns all sizes, all ages, all eras for shipping cost only. Then I can have more room for my vintage adult patterns!!!! Thank you.. Penny
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Anon said: *** I am really surprised at how heated and rude this discuss has become.***Yes, I agree. Calling someone parasitic for their career choice IS rude.Its not like we are LAWYERS or something. ;)What it comes down to is that the free market DOES work – and most of the vintage pattern resellers DO sell their items. Often at the prices they want for them.Like ANY retail establishment, they will have sales and reduce the prices of some stock to move it out. Thats inevitable- no matter the form of retail youre engaged in. Even books go on sale.But it amazes me that in THIS market a few seem to view it as sellers being greedy when in every other market, its simply business.Its sure easy to criticize folks who have something you want for a price you dont want to pay – but God forbid those folks defend themselves against unfair attitudes. We ALL live in this world – please try acting like it.
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Iee with every thing that has been said, I don’t have to many high end vintage patterns, but I have many modern ones and they do take a lot of time. and in some markets pattern prices are going down. I have a pattern that I paid 33 for at SA and saw it on an other buying site for 15.00 or more so that can happen but it is rare. I think more buyers should read blogs like this. Maybe they would getr some appreciation of the work we go through
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Janet at Lanetz, you doll!Your patterns are REASONABLY PRICED. Your site is the best–well organized, good vintage selection (though the B38 section could stand a little restocking 🙂 ) and easy to shop at. Your customer service is A+. You clearly are making money (otherwise, how would you have $5K on hand to shop for new inventory?) and YET you do it by asking a fair price. As a (repeat) Lanetz customer, I appreciate that!It’s hilarious reading people’s defense of this prosaic $75 McCall’s pattern. (Circle skirt + plain, kimono sleeve top=ordinary prom dress. A high school student could draft this. And you can certainly whip up something just like it using current patterns from the Big 4.) The pattern envelope is in poor condition, too, btw. Well, what a hoot! My favorite comments on this thread have been: the ones that admonish that since this is not an essential purchase, one shouldn’t complain about price (in other words, if you’re poor, keep it zipped, please); the commenter who said that $75 is only (!) 3-4 more times than the full price of a current pattern (yes, and it’s also as much as a tank of overpriced gas, 15 gallons of milk, blah, blah, blah), and BellaDonna’s comment that “I will never. EVER. EVER! bargain with someone else over the value of what she is selling, whether it’s artwork, or jewelry, or vintage patterns.” (as if bargaining is some kind of moral failure.)The world of vintage clothing, patterns and notions has changed tremendously since I got into it as college student in the 80s. My friends and I were drawn to vintage for the nostalgia but also for the prices. We could afford to dress well without spending a lot of money. Today I could not afford to buy those clothes that I wore in college! I certainly couldn’t afford to buy the vintage alligator purse I bought in ’86. (Thank god I kept it!)Now vintage is all dominated by the pros. You (or your pickers) get first dibs on everything, mark things up like a million percent and put it on ebay or sell it at shows. So who’s buying? Quirky wealthy people who like to amass “collections” that hang in some secret closet or fashion designers/retailers that want to rip off a vintage item. I was at a textiles show a couple of years ago and the vendors were whispering about how Betsy Johnson had been there earlier and had snapped up a bunch of stuff. That’s who we regular people vintage lovers are competing with for stuff: Betsy Johnson.With vintage patterns it’s mind blowing to see these outrageous $75 ea. prices for an item that was specifically intended for financially strapped people. (Depression era frocks patterns come to mind.) I think that’s why some of us find the prices insulting. Most of us who sew may do it for the love of it, for the custom fit, but ALSO to save money. (Somehow I doubt Melinda Gates, Oprah or the Queen of England sew their own clothes.) My first reaction when I discovered a few of these sites that sell nothing but over $45 patterns was WHAT THE…?! I looked at their offerings and then I moved on. Nothing but nothing is going to make me spend $75 on a pattern. I’m not tempted, it doesn’t tug at my heartstrings, I don’t shed a tear.
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I have got to add that I can NOT buy the same thing (vintage or otherwise) at any second hand stores in my area. The thrifts are disgustingly filthy, have no sewing patterns, and I have yet to find anything wearable – meaning no ruinous home alterations, stains, fabric that is so thread bare or faded that it is a joke, horrible odors, etc.I have ranted about this more than once since I joined Wardrobe Refashion. I have no thrift stuff to refashion!
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Anon -You don’t seem to get it. But, oh well.This isn’t about a $75 pattern. It’s about those who think they, and ONLY THEY, have the right to purchase these items – because they were “into it” first. Yes, designers buy vintage. Yes, some quirky wealthy people also buy vintage.But if you really think that’s who is supporting your local vintage store, you’re way off the mark.Every damn one of us would be starving, if that were the case.I, also, got into vintage in the 80’s. And you know what? The price of EVERYTHING has gone up since then! Heck, even gas was under $1!! So what makes you think that vintage should be any different?Because you were into it first?That’s such a teenager “I was into this band BEFORE they were popular!” kind of mentality, and I just don’t get it. It’s selfish and egocentric and just plain RUDE to try to tell other (successful!) people how to run their business to SUIT YOU.Get off your high (and anonymous yet apparently rich and fulfilling) horse for a reality check.
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It’s not like we are LAWYERS or something Wait a minute! I work in a law office (uh, between Big Band songstress engagements, of course). I’ll have you know, we NOT only bilk the rich, but we accept pro bono cases as well. Good golly! It’s like they say; “Everyone hates lawyers until they need one.”
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Cookie,To add levity into this discussion (and I hope you accept it as such!) I believe writer Christopher Buckley said in one of his books (and I paraphrase) ” . . . And then they REALLY hate them!”Some of my favorite customers are lawyers, paralegals, legal secretaries, BTW. So I surely don’t hate ’em.
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LOL Cookie!I actually LOVE our lawyer! I was more making a poor joke on the typical lawyer stance and how dumb it is to lump all of ANY category of people together.Sorry if it came off otherwise! 😉
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I personally wouldnt pay $75.00 for a pattern. But, I can draft, so I am probably not your target girl. None the less, I can appreciate your rant. There isnt any reason why you shouldnt sell a pattern for $75.00, if you can. I appreciate vintage items and understand that what was once commonplace is now special. Pricewise, thats the way the cookie crumbles. I dont care if you picked it out of a dumpster. If youve got the prize, youve got the prize.Once, while selling cute VW bus shaped planters made entirely by hand by hubby me, I dealt with an angry man who was upset that I no longer had a hunter green one left at the end of the day. He said: But, you had one when I was here this morning! and I said: If you wanted it, you should have bought it when you saw it. This isnt Walmart. The people you are ranting about need to go back to Walmart, too.
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Its not entirely sellers who decide the selling price of an item. Its Supply Demand that is the biggest factor. Vintage is more popular now that it was 20 years ago. Vintage cannot be found in most thrift stores anymore – especially since alot of the big name stores ship alot of their stuff overseas and other countries send groups of pickers over to hit thirfts and estates sales too. So sellers are competing with many more other sellers now.I was buying vintage for myself in the 1980s too. My mom was buying Victorian, Edwardian and vintage childrens clothing back in the 1970s, so she passed this sickness onto me! Im miffed about the higher prices and the smaller resource too. But thats life. The value of older hard to find items goes up with popularity and time.I feel so lucky to have been able to turn my love of vintage clothing into a job, 10 years so far and still going strong. And I work hard to find good quality stock and I also keep it priced within reason so that I can make a profit and pay my bills and so that my customers can afford to add wearable vintage to their wardrobes. Most of my prices are no higher than what you would pay for new clothing. So Im not inflating my prices a million times what I pay. I dont get special treatment from estate sales, Im not there at 3AM. I stand in line like anyone else. Im paying what theyre paying.
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There are so many varying opinions on this subject. I, of course, cannot be quiet, but feel I must throw my 2 cents into the ring.I know that a beautiful rare vintage pattern will call for a higher price. I don’t have an issue with $15 for a pattern. I’ve even gone as high as $60-$65 for one that I have to have. I do not buy from those vintage sellers who price evening gown patterns at $175 and everyday patterns at $25. I know a lot of time and effort goes into finding the patterns and maintaining a website..paying Ebay and Paypal fees and so on….. BUT I do feel we hit a point where a seller simply “appears” to be greedy. (notice I said “appears” as the seller may truly not be greedy and it’s not up to me to pass judgement on their motives).There is a “supply and demand” and “what the market will bear”, but let’s compare this to our friends, a/k/a the “oil speculators”. Supply and demand for oil and gas is very high. HOWEVER, do we really deserve to pay such outrageous prices for fuel??? I don’t think so!!This is the approach I take on how much I’ll pay for a vintage pattern. If I decide a Lanvin is worth $75 of my hard earned dollars, that’s my choice. I generally won’t shop, or visit, vintage sources that price all their patterns in a high range.They have a right to charge that amount and I have a right to say no. If someone loves the pattern and says yes, then both a happy and I’m happy for them.I do think that some of the prices need to come down and I’m guessing some of the sellers will begin to see their patterns move faster if they would lower thier prices to something more reasonable. They are not making a profit on patterns languishing on a site, unsold. Whereas a more reasonably priced pattern will move faster and will result in a faster profit and turn-around time.
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Just to add a quick comment: where I live, there are no 1$99 sales on the recent patterns from the big four. You are lucky when the pattern is less than ten euros. There are no sales of second hand patterns, and of course I cannot access estate sales in the US. Even Ebay from my country has very little interesting patterns. I am happy and grateful that someone has gotten through the trouble of looking after patterns, bringing them home, checking them, putting them on ebay. I am mostly surprised by the prices : I do not know how the ones on the lower end (I mean around 5$) of the price range manage it. And I have found many nice patterns within my price range (and sometimes, seen the prices rocket over to where they aren’t, but well, that is the game), patterns I would never have had access to without this. The only thing I regret are that some sellers do not ship overseas, but I only have to remember last time I went through the hassle at the post office to understand them.
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I am honestly surprised to see how this conversation has devolved into a debate about the worth of what some people do for a living. I debated whether to post but its tough to sit comfortably with being called a parasite. Given that the ultimate goal of what I do, what any of us do by sourcing and reviving vintage/antique/old items is recycling, its a rather odd term to use.The reality is that vintage clothing and patterns have increased in popularity and their visibility by the general public has become heightened. A person who was used to buying great vintage in the 80s certainly has reason to be annoyed with the competition that has created to be able to GET good vintage, but the upside I feel outweighs it. I cant tell you how many times Ive had someone come into my shop who saw a story on TV about vintage, or someone wearing vintage on the red carpet, or read about my shop or big city boutique in a paper or magazine and told me had they not heard that people like those old clothes, they would have thrown away Grandmas closet full of dresses. Thrown away!! I bet I hear that same story or a variation of it once a week…never mind the stories about what WAS thrown away. If vintage were only worn and valued by a small super-secret sector of the public, my bet is literally millions of pieces both beautiful, wearable and valuable in the scheme of fashion history would be rotting in landfills. My first big buy, the one that enabled me to take a hobby I loved and make it a career, was the estate of a woman named Jean who had no children. The house was jam packed and the clothes were not something anyone wanted or wanted to worry about. I bought them all, new/old/worn out/mint in package. With that I also got her wedding dress invitation from 1928 and all the correspondence from her family to her from the 20s to the 50s. Jeans life in clothing, as it was reflected from the 20s til the day she died, would now be in a landfill. As it is, every piece that I sold kept a little bit of Jeans soul alive….every piece cherished and worn again rather than vanishing from the Earth forever. Because I do what I do and have made it a career, I have a shop. Because I have a shop, I have a yellow page ad. And because of that very ad, a year or so ago I got a call from a woman sorting through her neighbors house. The neighbor had passed away, alone, no children. The house was in serious disrepair. There were old books, which lead the woman to think some clothes may be old. She looked in the yellow pages and saw my ad and called me. The clothes were in rough shape, mostly newer, utilitarian and for living in a house with no heat (very eccentric, this woman was!)….but in a box on a cedar lined closet, up high and nearly out of reach were 2 Claire McCardell dresses (one of which Erin featured here a while back!). This fascinating woman had gone to a University in Europe when she was younger…well read, well travelled. And she had 2 special dresses for social events. These were those. I was not only thrilled to handle 2 Claire McCardell dresses from the 50s, but thrilled to keep these dresses by an important designer in Americas history from going to the burn pile, and thrilled to keep Annes dresses she cherished so from being destroyed. Make no mistake. IF vintage had not gained popularity to the degree that it enables me so many others to make a living doing it full time for me to place that little ad in the yellow pages, those dresses would be ash. I did not beat someone else out to get to those dresses, plain and simple.What I know for fact is this….most vintage does not make it to the Goodwill to sit on the magical-mint-condition-$2 a pop Vintage Clothing rack. Most of it gets burned or pitched. If people didnt make a living selling it, if there were no market at all, the awareness would simply not be there. If that makes me a parasite….and if being a parasite in any way helps keep these lovely clothing, patterns and antiques from being thrown away…..then call me a parasite. I know better.Ang
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What a great post and awesome comments. I never knew the amount of effort that goes into selling vintage patterns, clothing etc. online. I have a limit, 45 is tops what I’ll pay for a pattern. It’s just my limit and I’ve paid for several at that price. But, I am so glad that there are people out there like Ang and all the others that I have bought from that are preserving and selling vintage stuff. How dreary our life would be without it! I have often thought of going into biz in the vintage area, but man, too much work!! Rather get a regular paycheck so I can spend it at your lovely shops! Jilly
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buy it or don’t buy it! All the various view have been expressed already…I’m sure most buyers of vintage widgets had no idea what it takes to make a business successful, and the long hours we work…being self-employed is very different from holding down a job as an employee.Yes, we sellers provide a Shopping/Finding service for you, the wonderful buyer ….I have no issues with anyone else going to estate sales at the wee AM’s…spending hours trolling the thrifts, and garage sales…If you put in the work, you get to have it before me!I love the idea of someone sitting at their computer for a few minutes, looking at websites of lovely pictures, shopping on ebay or etsy, clicking a few buttons, and then a few days later, as if by magic….Their lovely Vintage Widget is being held in their hands…all from the comfort of their chair.
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No comment on the price of patterns. HowEver! That is The Dress I Wore to Prom! Really! Everyone else was wearing chiffon but I made mine from polished cotton so I could wear it later! I really, really liked that dress.
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Oh my gosh, I just googled vintage patterns and found you. I’m struggling with deciding if it’s worth learning to sew in order to make some stuff I really love. Then I about had a heart attack looking at the patterns I really love…from the 50s. Yeah, I’ve pretty much realized it is not a money saver to sew my own stuff (even if I could learn). But still oh, so tempting. Great site! I’m bookmarking you.
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I’m fairly selective on the patterns I purchase~they have to appeal to me in style and size. I too, only purchase a small percentage of the patterns I come across, and they are getting harder and harder to come by over the years. I agree that not all pattern sellers buy at dirt cheap. My most recent buying spree, I purchased patterns for $1,$3, $5 and $10. I’m willing to pay more for patterns I know will be “hot”. The most I’ve ever sold a pattern for was $65 and it was on Ebay at auction. Most my patterns are $5 -$8 in my store with some $15-$30. Would I pay that much for a pattern? You know if it was my favorite dress pattern my mom made me as a child or a prom dress, Yes, I would too!
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Oh, I forgot to add~just for reading this great (and long) post, come on over to my etsy store and save 10%!
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It is with great interest that I’ve read this blog entry and all of the responses. I love vintage patterns and have a little collection. I noticed as with many things, the cost of vintage patterns on ebay seems to have risen in the last year. I regularly pay $10 – $20 for a vintage pattern that I like, and often I pay $50 – $60 for ones that are more unique or collectible. Recently I’ve been outbid more and more despite maximum bids of $70-80. I’m getting priced out on the more desirable ones. What can I do? I made a decision to attend estate sales and auctions. My husband and I have always enjoyed “the hunt” for stuff. We both have various types of things that we like… Small kids have prevented us in recent years from attending sales and auctions, but we are going to pick it up again. In fact, we went to a preview a couple of weeks ago; although I didn’t return to the auction, there were a few things I’d have liked and on a different day I’d have tried for them. I know it’s hit or miss, but I’m willing to take the misses for the hits. I have no intention of reselling, just picking things up for myself. Like Erin said in her post, we have choices: don’t buy, set up a wait-search on ebay or draft your own… she didn’t mention, however, that you can go and hit sales and auctions yourself, if you have them in your area. I realize it’s not an option for some folks, but for me it is, especially since I have the time. In the meantime, good luck to everybody who has a passion for collecting vintage patterns.
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“and BellaDonna’s comment that “I will never. EVER. EVER! bargain with someone else over the value of what she is selling, whether it’s artwork, or jewelry, or vintage patterns.” (as if bargaining is some kind of moral failure.)”Anonymous, if I think something is “a moral failure,” I will step right up and say so; no one will ever have to guess, or make assumptions. I stated that I will never[. EVER. EVER!] bargain over the value of someone else’s work – not that you couldn’t, or shouldn’t. My point of view: I’m not going to dicker with the seller over what something is worth. I happen to think a lot of people’s work is undervalued. If someone’s selling something I want, and I have the money, I’ll spend it. If I don’t have the money, I won’t. Just because I don’t have the money doesn’t mean it isn’t worth what its maker/current owner is charging for it. It means I don’t have the money. Do I wish that I DID have the money? Sure, for lots of things. So what? I don’t see why that should affect the value the seller places on what she has to sell.
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I bought 8 patterns , allin my size for $1 each in a vintage store in Va. Why? Because people didn’t buy them there. I jsut got lucky. She may never have patterns for me again, but I am glad I found the ones I did. If something is rare, beautiful and I love it…I will save my money for it. And if someone else’s get before me oh well. I barely find time to sew the patterns I have. I definitely don’t have the time to LEARN to draft patterns, then to draft them…sheesh! To me it’s worth my time (and money) for Jen, Marge, whoever, to find it for me and sell it to me at a fair price.
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Elsewhere + Blue Gardenia: I must say that since I began working in a law office, I’ve become pretty horrified in grasping the reality of what well paid lawyers can do for you. God help you if you can’t afford a decent attorney, or worse, don’t speak English! Have you ever tried to read a standard summons or a municipal code? Terrifying! Most people (including me, probably) can’t even make out the fine print on the back of a parking ticket, unaided! It really does seem to boil down to whoever has the most expensive legal defense wins…if only because cases can be tied up for so long before going to court, and most people just can’t handle that, either financially, schedule-wise, or emotionally. If I may get biblical (AND I’M NOT EVEN RELIGIOUS!) Jesus wept.
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Thank you for this post. It is SO true and so applicable to much more than vintage pattern sales.
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A few thoughts:The anonymous person who complained of vintage resellers driving up prices compared to twenty or so years ago gives the impression of being just as elitist as she thinks ‘new’ vintage buyers are. Also, I am poor *and* disabled, and frankly the vast majority of non-internet resources for vintage stuff are horribly inaccessible to a multitude of disabled people – either shops with narrow floor space and steps, markets which are too big and exhausting for people with mobility problems who don’t actually use a wheelchair, masses of dust and such to trigger all kinds of respiratory and allergic conditions or some other thing. The internet, on the other hand, I can shop in my own living room.I am constantly amazed at how cheap some of the vintage patterns are – I mean, there are patterns on momspatterns and the other sites for $4.50 – that’s less than I can buy any new pattern for! Over here (UK) the lowest any sale ever goes to is 2.95 (about six bucks) for New Look or half price (6 or 7, so $12-14) for Vogue (the other Big 4 companies generally are somewhere in between).Also, I went to a shop the other day which said it was having a clearance on fabric remnants and ‘vintage patterns’ – it wasn’t very far out of my way and I got some nice pieces of cloth, but the patterns were tatty and old-but-not-vintage (late 80s/early 90s ugly shapeless tops and tent dresses for the most part) and cost 1.50 ($3) each. The patterns on vintage reseller sites, on the other hand, while they are often not to my taste and the sites certainly carry the more recent (80s-90s) patterns, they are generally the higher quality type (designer ones and such) with design interest and such.
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Anwen-Nobody is complaining about the prices of sellers like mom’s patterns or lanetz. However, the price of $75 for the pattern on this post is really ridiculous. That’s what my complaint is about. This particular pattern is not that old or unusual (there tons of patterns floating around from the 50s). If this were a technically complicated pattern from the 20s or 30s, I’d consider the price close to reasonable.Your post reminds me of another thing. International buyers with stronger buying power (go Euro!) are also driving up the prices of items in the U.S. Elsewhere Vintage wrote:”This isn’t about a $75 pattern.”Actually, yes, that IS what the discussion is all about. At least for me it is. It’s NOT about “I got into it first.” It’s about the fact that NEW and OLD (that would be me) lovers of vintage patterns who actually use them and sew with them are getting priced out of the market. It’s about the fact that patterns were always intended for people who made their own clothes. (In other words, the cash-strapped.)But hey, whatever. Why stop at $75? Why not price vintage patterns at $750? Or better yet, $7,500? It’s funny to hear dealers justify their prices. “Oh, I get up early in the morning.” “I have to scan the patterns.” Why not be honest and admit that what you charge has nothing to do with that. You charge the maximum that you think you can get for the item. (If you didn’t, you wouldn’t be a good business person.)This morning I found an online seller who is selling recently out of print patterns from the Big 4. There are plenty of these to go around yet. No scarcity. This dealer has them for like $25-30 each, more than they cost new a few months ago. Why? Because she thinks she can get that for them.
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I’m late in coming to the discussion, so I apologize if I repeat something already stated.I think it helps to understand what goes into the price of an item. Especially when you break it down into a per hourly rate of what the person is making. Not forgetting to add in small business mean providing your own insurance/401K/etc. Do I think $75 is too much for a pattern? Yes – for me. Everyone has a different budget. I am a beginning level sewer with a fondness for vintage. If I were a serious collector of patterns, $75 probably wouldn’t even bother me. If I made more money and had more discretionary spending, I might be more inclined.
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Ananymous at 4:46 pm:Yes, they sell the maximum they can get for a pattern. That’s a big part of why they get up early and scan all those patterns in! Some patterns don’t sell, some sell for less than they’d like. The seller needs to make up for it with other items in your stock. Nothing wrong with charging what the market will bear. As to the online seller marketing recent OOP Big 4: good luck with that. Most people who sew won’t deal that way, especially if they can still be found on the pattern co. websites or through their sewing friends. I’ve even see online sellers try this with Big 4s that’re still in print. What’s wrong with these people?Heck, I’ve been seeking a particular Calvin Klein pattern for a while and I won’t buy the one that keeps popping up on eBay because the buy it now price is what I consider too high. I’ll take my chances with another seller’s auction, thank you.
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I notice that despite the tremendous publicity from Erin’s influential and highly trafficked blog, and despite the overwhelming support by most posters here regarding its $75 price tag, this pattern remains unsold. Whenever other patterns have been featured here, they’ve sold almost instantly.
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Can I say something kind of off topic? I, too, shudder at the cost of some patterns, but I figure that I make less than 20 grand a year and so there are a lot of things priced so that I shudder. But my off-topic point is that I like to poke around at estate sales and yard sales and NOTHING is more disappointing than to get somewhere and realize that someone came and bought out the entire stock of whatever was there. This is, of course, entirely someone’s right, but it’s also entirely someone’s right to demolish a historical (if unimportant) building if they own it. These are two unrelated things that drive me nutty. So that’s it – I have anger that I can’t poke around in some dusty, buggy patterns because I don’t want to get up at 4 am. Sigh. But I do enjoy Lanetz Living! (Did I just negate my nag?)
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I can see charging for the work involved, but I agree with many, if you can afford it, get it if you want, if not, go on down the road. I used to collect depression glass, got what I wanted and stopped when the pieces I wanted got out of reach. Same here. I will pass on something if the bids get too high and set a search on ebay. Or do what I just did, trade a dealer (antique, etc.) for something else they may want that you have/can provide, whether it be a much sought after pattern or labor.
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kinda on and off topic. Did you see yesterday’s email from Julie at Damn Good Vintage?!?!? (for those of us on her list) Some really, really gorgeous stuff in there! There’s even a McCall’s pattern reminiscent of the one on this post. I didn’t look at the price…
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Ang, your eloquence amazes me. Thanks for your post about Jean and the other estate at which you saved the clothes, and thanks from a vintage collector for preserving fashion history!
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When a discussion involves money and emotion, basic economic principles seem to go out the window.First: there is no set price that the seller is “entitled” to, because they got up early, scoured garage sales, and scanned in the envelopes. Nobody owes them a red cent. There is a price which they feel adequately covers their costs (tangible intangible – time, etc.), and makes it worthwhile to go to all that trouble. If they couldnt set a price high enough to satisfy themselves, they wouldnt be in the business at all, and patterns might end up locked away in small town basements, crumbling/rotting away in obscurity, or thrown away.On the flip side, there is no set price that is reasonable for a buyer – except what the buyer is willing to pay. It’s that simple. The market determines the price. The market may vary by where the seller and buyers are located (small town vs. the Internet). One buyer may want to purchase only patterns that have been thoroughly examined, are clean, free of tears, and will be shipped in 15 layers of bubble wrap. She’ll probably pay more for what she wants. That’s not unjust, that’s a fact of life. In addition, she may value it more because of the amount she paid for it. If every pattern cost $1, people would be snapping them up like hotcakes and using them rather disposably. (Remember, there are other people who buy patterns – people who will happily chop them up for arts and crafts, and not preserve them. It’s not just the historically minded out there.)Someone posed this question:But hey, whatever. Why stop at $75? Why not price vintage patterns at $750? Or better yet, $7,500? If someone tried to sell this exact pattern for $7500, it would never sell. Why? Because buyers would refuse to pay that price. Again, it’s market forces that affect how much a seller can charge and how much a buyer will pay for an item.Two hundred years from now, that same pattern might well be worth $7500 to somebody. Today, it’s not worth $7500, but that’s not because of anything inherent in the pattern. It’s simply what people are willing to pay for what they see in that pattern.
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Good morning, everyone!Exactly why I don’t think I’ve ever thought of breaking things down in a Per Hour sort of way.. BECAUSE at the end of the day, you’re right! Someone is only going to pay what they’re going to pay, and something is only truly ‘worth’ what that buyer ends up paying! And I STILL can’t get into the mindset of ‘all the work that went into getting this ONE PATTERN online for sale’ when it’s beat up, tore up, crumbling in my hand and a small size! Whether I paid .01 for it or $8.. I just might be at a loss on that one! lolAnd in regards to my comment of ‘asking for a price reduction or discount’.. I hope that didn’t come off as EVERYTHING IS ALWAYS UP FOR NEGOTIATION! I DO think that MOST everything CAN be; but agreed. You can’t go into Walmart or the Grocery Store (or Prada lol!) and ask to barter. It is what it is! What I meant was that there ARE times if something online seems priced high, there are other options for acquiring it at a lesser price. Mainly via coupons from mailing lists, blogs, or repeat/returning customer discounts. Hope I clarified that one! I truly appreciate the positive comments for the pricing at MOMSPatterns, you guys rock 🙂 I’ll take this opportunity for one more plug – coupon code fireworks15 will save you 15% off your orders at http://www.momspatterns.com til the end of the month.. AND I spent about an hour last night moving some more patterns into an On Sale section where there’s nearly 200 patterns there priced $1-$4!Now, I have to go comment on those shoes! Hope everyone has a fabulous day!
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Thanks lorrwill for the “shoutout”!”Exactly why I don’t think I’ve ever thought of breaking things down in a Per Hour sort of way..”Jen, that’s because we, like most small business owners, would need a stiff cocktail if we thought about what we get paid per hour.;-)
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Julie, baby!Oh is THAT why there seems to be a neverending river of vodka martinis in my house?! Now it all makes sense!!!!lol
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Actually, everything IS up for negotiation, especially at a place like Prada where sales people work on commission. Try it some time. (You’ll have better luck at the end of the month.) Of course your offer needs to be reasonable. Usually the higher the price, the more likelier something is negotiable. (Think cars, real estate.) There is an art to negotiation. If done properly both buyer and seller benefit with their egos intact. (Most sellers like to move merchandise.) On a separate note, wealthy people are the most likely to bargain. (For example, Donald Trump has claimed he doesn’t pay retail anywhere, not even a department store.)oxanna-When I asked “why not $7,500” I was making a point. People price their patterns based on what they think they can get away with. If this seller thought she could get $7,500 she’d certainly be putting up for that price. The point I was trying to make is that there is no correlation between the “work” that goes into something and the cost of that item.
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I’m a vintage pattern seller with a small shop, and it’s been fascinating to learn from this discussion how customers see sellers. I’m surprised by the wide range of thoughts and feelings about the mundane process of searching, finding, counting, scanning, pricing, listing, and selling patterns.Of course, the market sets the prices, as with everything else that’s bought and sold. I wonder if some of the resentment about prices at the higher end is rooted in a feeling of regret that we can’t go back in time and purchase them at their original price, or receive them as family heirlooms, or just go back in time. I often wish I’d saved my own patterns from the 60s and 70s. And my favorite dresses.My aunt was a seamstress in the 40s, 50s, and 60s. What happened to her patterns? My mother sewed beautiful clothes for me. Where did her patterns go? I’ve worked very hard to hold onto a few pattern gems for my collection, rather than sell everything I find. It seems like it should be easier to hold onto our sewing pattern history. But, if it were easier, I don’t know if I’d value it as much.
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